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gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by SugarGliderCandy on Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:41 am

I could care less WHO this situation was regarding:
The way that particular question was worded it read- that if the person HAD gliders -what happened to it. She answered she currently HAS a glider(which she did) at that point the following half of the question didn't make sense to a yes reply. At the time she filled out the QUESTIONNAIRE(Lynn clarified at the beginning of that Q'naire that it WAS NOT a contract- just a tool to determine if she was experienced or needed assistance with gliders) Laura's gliders had been missing for some time.

If all of Laura's gliders had escaped and then she filled out the Q'naire to say YES she currently has gliders, THAT would be a misrepresentation. She would have needed to answer NO, and explained why she no longer has gliders.
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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MackieZ on Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:51 am

Lynn knew about the ecaped gliders whether its onb th app or not and even if I accidentally misrepresented myself as lynn would say she still needs to give money back, you can't keep all of someones money and not give anything in return. It was a full payment and she has been allowed to keep a deposit, plenty fair seeing as 4 months has gone by and she still owes me all but 50 bucks.

As far as the situation being handled wrong, we have tried everything else so far that doesn't involve me flying to michigan. That's the next step. I've had an animal lawyer in the area show me holes in the contract, I wrote them down and saved them in my laptop and would need to refresh my memory but she did break her contract already and no judge would let her keep that money. She didn't do anything to earn it, you can't get something for nothing, sorry that's my 2c.
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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MackieZ on Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:54 am

Another thing, no one wants to crucify lynn, she brought this on herself by scamming and lying, I thought lynn seemed very nice originally then she screwed me over, sorry not gonna let that happen. She needed $, saw me as a target and duped me. Stupid me, yes but like I said...she misrepresented herself at first, hahaha.
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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:58 am

Tell you your wrong? Your wrong.

I'll help fix the order of events for you so you better understand.

Gliders4U wrote:Okay so I haven't really been following too much but this is the gist of what I got.
Tell me if I got this right:

Lynn has gliders she was selling to Laura.

Laura sent $600.00 (a deposit and i guess some balance?)

Lynn used that money to pay bills so she no longer had the cash in her possession.
(wrong thing to do since ANYTHING can come up like the death of a glider)

Laura signed the contracts

Then this is where I am confused...
Laura had gliders that escaped and was never found again in her home?
She did have glider escape. And Lynn was told (even if not on the contract, the issue was not a secret) by Laura about it. Lynn had already "approved" her and was making arrangements to set up a RR or a flight (though Lynn later lied and said she NEVER said she would ship EVER... Liar).

Did this happen before she filled out the contract?
Yes, the gliders were lost before the contract/application. However it was a public heartbreaking event that is detailed on GC... I dont know about you but a search on a person's posts as far back as I can is standard procedure when looking into a potential home...

If it did happen BEFORE she filled out the contract she DID NOT mention that on the contract where it asked if she had gliders and what happened to them.
The application, not contract asked if she has/had gliders. Laura answered she did have one. It is Lynn's job to review her own damn application for accuracy and research the buyer. Not saying Laura isn't wrong for not including it, but it was not being held as a secret either.

If she really did leave that information out, then legally I THINK Lynn does not have to give the money back.
It is highly unlikely that "contract" would ever stand in court. Lynn "approved" her as a home regardless, and was aware of the missing gliders. Lynn then cancelled her contract herself. She said the words it was cancelled, therefore she owes Laura FULL refund. Maybe minus deposit, but there was never a deposit discussed, Laura paid them in full and quickly.

And here is my reasoning for that:
by avoiding that question, whether *intentional* or *NOT* she misrepresented herself.

Perhaps, but an application isn't the legal document we are discussing, and Lynn WAS told. Took Lynn nearly a month to cancel after that.

Breeders ask that question to get a better idea of how a buyer treats their gliders. If someone filled out an application for my babies and said that they had gliders JUST recently escape and they were unable to find them, I would DENY their application. Mistakes happen I understand that but I still wouldn't want an owner to make a mistake with one of my babies. Would you?
Of course we would never want that, but I would also be researching a potential buyer rather than relying on a online application of knowledge. People can and do lie, to base your opinions only on an application is STUPID.

That WOULD be something someone would LIE about on the application so that they would not seem like an unfit glider owner. I'm NOT saying that was the case here BUT who really knows.
Im not saying that is the case or not either, but it wasn't a secret, there are long threads concerning them on GC.

If a potential adopter neglected to inform you that their gliders had escaped and died somewhere in their house a week or so before, when you asked "what happened to your gliders" wouldn't you be on here posting about how you were lied to when you found out? Wouldn't it look like they were hiding something?????
Nope, I would have researched the person, and found in recent posts about her gliders. I would have contacted Laura asking why she did not list the glider(s) lost and ask for an explanation then. Gliders chew out of repts every day. I have many gliders, and I have escapee's too. Does that mean if one of the times they escaped and harm came to them I should never be trusted with another glider for the rest of my life? HELLO.. Accidents do happen, we just hope it never happens to us.


Last edited by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typing under the influence... (Of flu/cold meds).)

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:03 am

SugarGliderCandy wrote:I could care less WHO this situation was regarding:
The way that particular question was worded it read- that if the person HAD gliders -what happened to it. She answered she currently HAS a glider(which she did) at that point the following half of the question didn't make sense to a yes reply. At the time she filled out the QUESTIONNAIRE(Lynn clarified at the beginning of that Q'naire that it WAS NOT a contract- just a tool to determine if she was experienced or needed assistance with gliders) Laura's gliders had been missing for some time.

If all of Laura's gliders had escaped and then she filled out the Q'naire to say YES she currently has gliders, THAT would be a misrepresentation. She would have needed to answer NO, and explained why she no longer has gliders.

:i agree:

That is what I was TRYING to say through my drug fogged virus infected brain. Thank you... My point exactly!

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Chris R on Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:23 am

Speaking of doing a little research.....Just look up Lynns posts on here.....shes a nutjob from the beginning along with her "rent-a-lawyer"
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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:35 am

Everyone is going to have BFF's that dont see the problems when they are warned... Mackie was like that from the beginning and we warned her... lol Hindsight is 20/20.

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Gliders4U on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:07 am

Was she told of this incident before Laura signed the contract?


I think i miss typed when I said she misrepresented herself on the CONTRACT.

Yes the adoption questionnaire is not legally binding but she agreed to this statement on the contract:
"Any misrepresentation on the buyers part will cancel this contract and all moneys paid are NON-REFUNDABLE"

Which IS legally binding.

by avoiding that question, whether *intentional* or *NOT* she misrepresented herself.

The question MAY have been worded funny, I think it makes perfect sense. If i answered that question I would tell how many gliders I currently have, how many I had and what happened to the ones I had. What happened to her was a pretty significant accident and I don't think I would have just FORGOTTEN about it, especially if she was as upset about it as she said she was.

When you go to a shelter to adopt an animal they ask the same question. I've seen people turned down to adopt for "my dogs escaped my yard and were hit by a car". Many people would leave something like that out to sound more like a good adopter.

Again, i'm not saying that is what happened but that can definitely be argued in court.


I think by putting:
"Any misrepresentation on the buyers part will cancel this contract and all moneys paid are NON-REFUNDABLE"

in the contract she doesn't owe anything because she can argue that Laura misrepresented herself.

And to address what everyone was saying:
"It was publicly talked about"
Maybe, but nothing should be ASSUMED when filling out a legally binding contract.

Now if you can bring proof to the table that Lynn had knowledge of this incident BEFORE Laura signed that contract, I would say then you should get a refund.

Another thing, Someone said "you can't just keep someone's money and not give them anything in return"

I disagree. If someone goes against stipulations in the contract, i will be keeping their money and not sending them a damn thing. Say for instance my contract had the same stipulation and my questionnaire asked "do you have any sugar gliders" they answer NO THEN sent a deposit and some balance or all balance and THEN I find out that they are a breeder after doing further research, I would be keeping EVERY penny because I have the right to. The misrepresentation stipulation doesn't say ONLY if the misrepresentation happens before money is paid, it is implied by the fact that it says "all monies paid will not be refunded" that it can happen at anytime during the transaction.


If this went to court I would see Lynn pulling out the questionnaire the contract, underlining the part that I quoted, then pointing out that Laura did not include the fact that 2 gliders escaped.
(UNLESS this was brought to her attention via email dated BEFORE Laura signed the contract)
She will argue that this is an extreme misrepresentation of herself and that this would have been a deciding factor.


I was just giving everyone food for thought/an outsiders Point Of View.

I am really curious to see how this will play out in court if it does go there.

Remember, if she has good representation, she might be able to win this one and counter sue for legal costs.


(I'm not taking sides, I'm just stating what I see from an outsider. Please dont kill me LOL)

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Gliders4U on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:19 am

Furthermore, to add to the post I just made (which isnt showing up for some reason)

I would have never signed that contract with that clause in it because it's too vague. Any accidental misrepresentation of myself would cause me to lose everything. I would have asked for that to be removed or found another seller

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:31 am

We wont bring the guillotine Gliders4U (dont know your name, you have no siggy).

This was the question:

Do you now or have you ever owned a sugar glider? Yes___x____No_______

If so, when & what happened to it? __________________________________

Like Alicia said on page freakin 7, this is a yes or no question. She cannot answer no because she DOES have a glider. So yes it is. Then the next question is concerning the response to the first "If so" what happened? She currently owns the glider. Where is the misrepresentation? Why would that matter as this was not on the "contract".

I have in my email the dates for the contract/questionnaire/payments, etc. I just dont feel like looking them up because I am ill.

Okay. Laura finished paying the gliders off on Oct 27th. The application was sent 10/15, the contract wasn't even sent until Nov 1st to Laura. Regardless of when it was filled out and sent back, the monies were paid in full and Lynn had two weeks+ to research herself Laura's answers. Contract email dated 11/1:

----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "Gliderma@aol.com" <Gliderma@aol.com>
To: ivegotmorgans@yahoo.com
Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 11:18:00 PM
Subject: glider contract


Here is my contract for you.


Not to mention, here is the email that Lynn was sent from Laura dated Oct 27th when they were trying to get a RR figured out and Kristina decided to stir trouble on GC for them.
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "ivegotmorgans@yahoo.com" <ivegotmorgans@yahoo.com>
To: Gliderma@aol.com
Sent: Tue, October 27, 2009 12:19:25 PM
Subject: Re: Atlas, Lacey, Aero and Kingston

I responded to a few in the thread. The woman who made a comment about it being illegal is the one giving me a hard time. She sold me my wfb 100 percent leu het and won't believe me he chewed out from his reptarium because there is a pic of him in a wire cage before my repts came. I sent her pics of the hole but she insists I sold him no matter how upset I am about it and has been harassing me about it. She did recently apologize after I put her in her place but she's all Piddled now that I can buy more gliders so soon after his disappearance weeks ago. I think she wants to make this very hard for me and what can I do I told her what happened and what I've done staying up all night to find him but she doesn't listen. She also told me I can't trust many people on GC and that there are a lot of dishonest people and I shouldn't buy a glider family so cheap because they are probably from a mill. I understand her concerns but she needs to stay out of my business and calm down. Every accusation she's made to me has been false and I explained you wanted a good home for your gliders, ect but after I saw her post on GC getting in the middle of our railroad I am realizing she's still causing trouble.

Anyway I think some of the railroad situations are possible. Gliders are so discrete what are they going to do search my car for traveling through with gliders?
Laura
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

I think that proves Lynn knew BEFORE the contract was signed... Happy? My virus infected brain has done overtime lol.

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:39 am

What DOES seem shady to me, is the fact that once Lynn found out she was QUICK to send that contract having already been paid in full. Here is the proper time line:

Lynn has gliders for sale.

Laura fills out questionnaire 10/15.

Laura begins sending payments as follows:
10/16, 10/20, 10/21, 10/26, final payment 10/27.

Laura informs Lynn history of missing gliders via email 10/27, date of last payment.

Lynn responds to that email with her contract 11/1.

Lynn informs Laura the contract is cancelled by Lynn on 11/22 stating ONLY the following reasons:
The fact that you would go ahead & breed without the lineage is unacceptable! This pair is a bonded pair and the fact that you are buying a WFB male to pair with them are unacceptable! The male is a WFB, the female is a leu. They are together as a couple and are not to be separated. You took it upon yourself to say you were getting full breeding rights. This is not the case at this price and how dare you break up a bonded pair! You also have no way of getting this family of gliders as you have known all along I do not ship! The fact that you talked about our personal arrangement is also unaccepatable. My finances are no one else's business and should have stayed that way! This contract is canceled as of now because of all of these inconsistencies. I do not want my gliders put in a bad situation with an inexperienced owner who apparently is only wanting to breed the heck out of them! I am sorry, but this is not how I want them to live, and it is ultimately my call.

Not once does she say it is due to Laura's "misrepresentation", Lynn accuses that much later after heated emails are exchanged.

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:00 pm

FWIW, I moved this thread to where I personally feel it really belongs... And Im adding a link to Lynn's warning thread.

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Chris R on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:05 pm

I dont know about anyone else but the timeline just verify's for me that Lynn is one helluva SCAM ARTIST!!!
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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:26 pm

Once I got the emails from Mackie (sorry Laura, like Matchie - I like Mackie better lol) it was clear to me. Dont know how else to view it. If she was that concerned she should not have sent the damn contract unless she was TRYING to trap Laura.

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by jungleflockmom on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:12 pm

SugarGliderCandy wrote:If she doesn't have the money then she owes her the gliders. Her own words in her contract is binding.

I think Laura is doing the right thing by filing internet fraud charges. She has a contract that she filled out after filling out a questionnaire(which Lynn states is not a contract, just a questionnaire) Laura did not lie on the questionnaire- she didn't fill out a line "what happened to it" She currently owns gliders and answered appropriately. She had made payments as agreed upon. In writing means written- not necessarily printed and notarized(which Lynn failed to include as a clause) ALL agreements Lynn made in writing(emails and such) ARE BINDING (by the terms of her own contract) and can be used against her in court.

Her paying you with a company check is also crossing into other waters. Didn't Lynn at one time say her business was closed or she was arrested for operating without a license?Also, can she legally write a check off one business account for payment for transactions for another business?

Lynn's contract will be interpreted as having been made with 'dirty hands'. She is weighing the contract so heavily in her favor by making loopholes which always end up in her favor. You can NOT make a legally binding contract like that.

If I were Laura, I would 1) stop communicating with Lynn through emails and on the forums.2) I would send a certified letter with your intent to file paperwork for internet fraud, grand theft, interstate fraud, breech of written contract, breech of oral contract, failure to provide services and merchandise, etc. 3) I would file a complaint with the attorney general's office in her county 4) I would file the necessary paperwork for a lawsuit for the amount she owes you,to take possession of the gliders, for the cage set, for the filing fees, lawyer fees, travel costs, lost wages and other associated fees.

She is clearly in the wrong and if you present your case in court she will lose. She can change her mind about selling you her gliders, but she can not keep your money. She breeched her own contract and you are being penalized for it. I believe taking her to court is the only way you will get your money from her and get her to understand that she can NOT conduct business in that manner.

I'd hate this bit of very good advice to get lost in the "she said, I said". Your next step is not to go to Michigan. All of this can be done via communication w/the clerk of the court and atty general's office before you ever set foot in Michigan. If you were to go to Michigan, it would be a small claims case if you wanted to pursue it civilly. Be careful that the drama doesn't overtake doing only what's necessary to get your money back. As Chris said, Lynn's posts clearly represent her.

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Gliders4U on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:22 pm

Ah you cleared that up with the date timeline :) thanks!

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:31 pm

Glad to be of service! ;)

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Gliders4U on Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:48 pm

What does also sound a bit shady is that the day of the last payment Laura THEN informed Lynn of the missing gliders.

It's almost like, "oh well since I already paid, she won't back out saying I'm a bad glider owner"

*shrug* that's what it looks like. It's like, "oh by the way, my gliders escaped and died but I promise that won't happen with your babies"

IDK that sounds shady as well.

:-)

This is like the game of clue kinda hehe

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Tish84 on Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:53 pm

The missing information is bad no matter how you look at it, but Kinue is right about it being all over GC. I remember reading it and I do think that if I was selling someone a glider, I'd go through everyone of their GC posts.

It looks like Lynn knew but was keeping it in her back pocket in case she needed it for later so to speak. Plus Lynn knew before she even sent the contract making it look like she knew if Laura signed the contract, she'd have her money and be able to cancel due to what was on the questionnaire. That sounds shady too.
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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:04 pm

Gliders4u - It was no coincidence or shady at all actually. If you looked up the info like I had in the beginning you would see it was Kristina getting involved with their RR thread on 10/27 (http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/858460/Searchpage/1/Main/84688/Words/My1stLeu/Search/true/Re_Railroad_from_Ohio_to_CT#Post858460 if you'd like to have a look) that prompted Laura to feel like explaining. :huh ?:

I guess Im not just reading that far into it as you?

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MackieZ on Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:54 pm

Gliders4u, I told her about the missing gliders on that date because it came up in conversation while discussing the railroad. I didnt think it was her business but understand now how the glider community works and would have told her first thing if I understood it then. I didnt just say ok now here ya go, here is the deal on me....it came up while chatting about further arrangements. I think Gliders4u is a friend of Lynn's lol, she/he doesnt look at this info provided and get that Lynn has done wrong. If there is something else thats not clear I would be happy to answer any questions for you but sounds to me like your one sided....


I tell you when I sent the contract and didnt hear from her even after she had it and I finally emailed her and she sent the 1st few emails, I looked back and it seemed like the whole thing was set up, it fealt that way but I have no way to prove I was. All I can say is that I had this wierd feeling she planned this from the get go.
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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by usha77 on Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:55 pm

I still don't want to believe that it was planned from the beginning...but, that could just be my :rose glass: Lol! Eh...you can't always get what you want...hehe
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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Gliders4U on Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:21 pm

Match, I always read too much into thing! Lol
Laaura, I don't know lynn nor do I know you... nor do I know many people in the gloider community. I don't usually spend much time online at all, too busy which is why in my first post I said I wasn't really following too long and stated the gist that I got. Then match filled me in a little more.

I think this whole thing is also a good learning experience for everyone. Its a sucky situation though!

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by MatchMakersMagic on Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:04 pm

Gliders4U, could you fix your siggy so we can speak to a name rather than a SN?

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

Post by Gliders4U on Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:04 pm

Sure :-) So is your name Kinue?

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Re: gliderma(LYNN MARTEL) speaks.....if anyone cares to listen

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